From $12 Ticket to Global Stage

Jim Cathcart 00:05 Welcome to a thoughtful discussion of important ideas among people who are committed to succeeding in life. This is a gathering of leaders from a variety of industries, and our role here is to help you reach the top 1% of your field of choice. I'm Jim Cathcart, so come with me and let's discover how much more successful you could be. Hey, folks, welcome. This is Jim Cathcart, and this is the Professional Experts Podcast. This is a gathering of people who specialize in doing what they do best as a personal provider of their service, as opposed to a company that would provide it through products or through some kind of a system. The Professional Experts Podcast is for people like coaches and speakers and authors and podcasters and advisors and consultants, people who are basically the product of their business. Years ago, when I was considering this business, I fell in love with the field of personal development. And I went to a big event called the Positive Thinking Rally. This Positive Living magazine was there. And this is a picture of an audience in, I think it was Kansas City with way over 12,000 people in attendance. And then I went to the one in Tulsa, Oklahoma. This was November 7th of 1976, but who's counting? And there were 11,700 people in attendance. How do I know? Because I was blown away by that number. I was there on the campus of Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and the program had all the big names of the day and the new names, like Zig Ziglar, who had just emerged as one of the new rock stars of the profession. Well, one of the founders of the National Speakers association who was involved with the rallies was their master of ceremonies and opening keynoter, Don Hudson. Well, Don Hudson was kind of a hero of mine because I'd met him when I was his handler for a local meeting of the American Society for Training and Development in Tulsa. Don came in, blew us away with a great presentation, and he and I hit it off famously and stayed in touch. And Don was on the program with people like Paul Harvey and Cabot, Robert Nart Linkletter and Earl Nightingale, Norman Vincent Peale and other notables of the day. And I got involved with Don's. Don's motivation and guidance. And I ended up writing an article for Positive Living magazine a few months later, and ultimately was on stage with the same kind of people. And Don and I have been more like brothers than just friends in this business all those years. Last week in Phoenix, Arizona, the National Speakers association, which Don is one of the founding members of. When I say founding members, I'm talking like 12 people in a room saying, well what do you think and what should we call it? And you got any money on you? Let's pay some dues and get this thing started. So one of the founding members of the National Speakers association. Last week this 50 plus year old organization held a convention in Phoenix with thousands in attendance. And main stage keynoter for that event was Don Hudson. After all these years, he was back as one of the original founders and an early president of the group, back on the stage delivering a keynote and today he's with us. Certified professional expert number seven. Part of my great eight who were the ones that I wanted to get the CPE to serve as an example for the rest of the world of what one looks like so they'd know what to aspire to. And he's sitting right here in, in this window next to me. But he's in Memphis, Tennessee. Don, I love you. God bless you. Thank you for joining us. Say hello to the Professional Experts followers. Speaker B 04:42 Well, hello CP and hello to you, JC we are like brothers and we go back so far and it's all been a fun run, man. Jim Cathcart 04:50 Boy, it certainly has. And we've been in each other's homes and gotten to know each other's families and much more than that, of course. Don, what I try to do with the Professional Experts podcast is give people an example of yet another career that reached the top 1% and above so that they can see all the different ways to do it. You know, we've had Les Brown on here, I've had Brian Tracy on the program. I've had Eric Swanson, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Awesome. I mean, who's out in California and Utah. And he told his example, Patricia Fripp, you know, so many different versions of doing our business. Now you graduated what, Memphis State University was it? Speaker B 05:40 That's correct. Jim Cathcart 05:40 With a degree in sales things at a time when nobody had heard hardly of, of sales. And Dr. Waylon Tonning was the, the man who was head of your department and kind of guided you through that and you paid your way through college selling. So clearly selling is Don Hudson and Don Hudson is sales. I mean, even your book, the sale kind of says the whole thing, doesn't it? Give us a hint they're not ahead, an overview of your path. Like, wow, seeing it from the outside and then being one of the founding rocks on which this whole profession has been. Speaker B 06:24 Well, Jim, thank you for all of those kudos and for your exaggeration. I greatly appreciate it. I think an interesting story would be to tell you How I got into the business. I was in class in Dr. Tonning's class, Memphis State University, and as a guest speaker to our sales class, he brought in Dick Gardner, who was promoting a local seminar in town, and he gave a guest talk that was absolutely incredible. And at the end he offered us a student ticket half price to come to a sales rally with four great speakers. Well, for $12 and a half I couldn't help but sign up. I mean the value was this big and the price was only this big. Jim Cathcart 07:03 So I signed up back then would be what, $120 today or more probably. Speaker B 07:09 Yeah, yeah. So a few weeks later I went to the big rally down at the auditorium downtown. The second speaker was Dr. Kenneth McFarlane, who I credit with getting me into this business. Yeah, he was known as the Dean of American speakers. He was, was, if not the most eloquent speaker alive, certainly one of the top three. Jim Cathcart 07:30 Truly. Speaker B 07:32 He was an orator indeed. He gave a great speech. It was sales oriented, it was patriotic, it was motivational. But I got to tell you, Jim, I got chills, I mean goosebumps, like six or eight times during his speech. I was overcome with his presentation. And at the break when he was done, I got up and went out to the lobby level and found Dick Gardner. Because I'm sitting to myself, I don't know what it's going to look like, but this is the business I've got to be in. So I walked up to Dick gardner, I said, Mr. Gardner, I'm Don Hudson. I graduated from the University of Memphis in six weeks. I want to go to work for you. I can help you sell people on coming to these rallies, let's. This is fantastic. He said, can you go to meet me for breakfast at 7am tomorrow morning? I said, yes sir. And I did. We had breakfast, we talked in length, and by 9:30 he had hired me into this training business. So I went to work for a salesman, as a salesman for nasc. Jim Cathcart 08:35 And initially we went to nasc. Speaker B 08:39 What national as Sales N A S. The national association of Sales Education. Jim Cathcart 08:46 Sales Education, Got it. Speaker B 08:47 Yeah. So initially I was going. We'd go into city for like three months, calling all the sales organizations, real estate, stockbrokers, insurance, automotive, you name it. We'd call on all those companies and asked to speak to the sales manager or VP of sales and set up a meeting for one of us to come in, do a 30 minute talk which was a free sample, a little bit of what we had a lot of coming. Jim Cathcart 09:13 Yeah. Speaker B 09:14 And we did that Free of charge. But it was a great experience. The end. We would give our brochure, tell them about the sales rally coming to town and see if we could sell them on. Sign it up. So my first 1500 speeches were all 30 minute freebies like that. It was a, for a second, it was an incredible. Jim Cathcart 09:34 Now let me bring some of our younger listeners up to date on this. At that time that Don's talking about, businesses didn't provide training. Almost no business, not even the big corporations had a training department. They would say if you called on them, no, we don't do training, we hire well, which was not true, but that's what they believed at the time. The American Society for Training and Development started back in that time frame to grow a lot, but it had been kind of a non entity for many, many generations. As a matter of fact, there was no such thing as human resources. It was called personnel. And it was not about training people or taking care of them. It was about acquiring people and kind of herding them like cattle to get the most out of them at the time. So here don't and his crew go into a strange town, staying in a hotel or motel, getting together with his group in the morning and having a breakfast to get themselves in the right mindset. And then they spread out over town making unannounced calls, what are typically called cold calls. I prefer to call them first calls or new calls. Anyway, they would go in and try to talk to these people they'd never met who weren't expecting them into making time right away for them to do a 30 minute presentation which resulted in Don getting a handful of payments for tickets to bring people to this enormous motivational event. So back to you, don't bring them. Speaker B 11:16 That's a great over overview. JC More explicitly, I'll give you another example of the sales training situation. Back in those days, in the late 60s, people would you say, well tell me about your company sales training. And they would immediately start describing product training. Yeah, well there's product training and their sales skills training and they are not the same. Jim Cathcart 11:38 Absolutely, you're right. Speaker B 11:39 They didn't have sales training going on. So we were, we were filling that void to a great degree with sales and motivational programs. But as a salesman slash speaker, given those talks, 30 minute talks to those little groups of eight or 10 people, man, that was rugged. But it was the greatest training ground on the business. And that's where I really learned how to speak. Jim Cathcart 12:02 Well, that had to make you virtually bulletproof on the confidence level because you'd gone into so many situations, many of which were awful, you know, by surprise, you find out that, you know, the building catches on fire, somebody has a medical emergency, or the guy who's introducing you as a smart aleck and he's kind of humiliating you in front of the group and then giving you the moment, or you're in a room with no microphone, you're in a room with poor lighting, they told you they're going to have a chalkboard for you, and they didn't have a chalkboard. And, you know, it just goes on and on and on. Speaker B 12:41 Yeah, all kinds of experiences like that. I may have ultimately felt highly confident and bulletproof, but not at first. I was incompetent and scared to death. Now, fortunately, Gardner gave me some good sales and speaking training, and that helped me finally get to where I needed to be. Yeah, I worked for dec. A year and a half, almost two years, and started my own company doing a similar thing. AST said that was Sales Corporation of America, osca. Okay, sca. And I had one salesman working for me. He came with me. We started a new company and we really blew the doors off for about three or four years. And by that time I was starting to get invitations to speak at company meetings. And I chose, with Cabot Roberts help to get on the speaking circuit, and the rest is history. So that was a fun run and filled with good opportunities for me. And fortunately, I seized all them pretty well. Jim Cathcart 13:36 Well, the thing that stands out for me, when I look at you and I look at people like Brian Tracy and Patricia Fripp and some of the others that have been in this business for an entire career, when I look back at where we all started, because I had similar roots, we started with bringing nothing to the party except ambition. I mean, seriously, none of us came into it with advanced degrees or having been a, you know, a leading athlete. You know, he's. He's the. The All American quarterback or she's the, you know, champion this or that. We all came into it with just sweat equity and worked hard. Make. I went to 400 JCS Junior Chamber of Commerce meetings and presented in two years in 1974 and 75. And when I started doing that, I was awful at it. Embarrassingly bad. But by the time I'd done two or 300 of those, man, I'd, you know, bring it on. I was ready. Loaded for bears, we used to say. But all of us did those few first hard years. You spoke in Phoenix in 1979 at the National Speakers Convention On a panel. And I was the emcee of the panel and with Summers, White and you. And I've forgotten who else maybe. No, I was going to say Mark Victor Hansen, but he was in the front row. Anyway, the two of you for sure were on that panel. And what struck me that day was you pointed out how many speeches you gave without getting paid a cent before you ever started being a paid speaker. And it was. Speaker B 15:28 That's right. Jim Cathcart 15:29 Hundreds and hundreds of speeches. Right? Speaker B 15:32 Yeah, it sure was. And I look back on it, of course I was. I was selling tickets to the seminar. So I was indirectly getting paid, but I did not get a fee check for making that speech. I got paid through the back door. Jim Cathcart 15:45 Do you remember the first one that was a fee check? Speaker B 15:51 Yeah, it was in Omaha, Nebraska. And I wasn't very good, but I sold three or four tickets. And I thought, you know what, if I can be that bad and sell these tickets, if I get good, I could really sell a lot of tickets. No, I got better. You know, you mentioned that, Jim, Ironically, Mark Victor Hansen called me this morning now to con. Yeah, he had heard I hit a home run at nsa and he called to congratulate. I talked to him in 30 years, probably. Jim Cathcart 16:18 My gosh. My Chinese agent, Dr. David Chu, also represents Mark over there. And so I did through David. I've reconnected with Mark a number of times over the past few years. But what an amazing individual. He and Jack Canfield, his co author, were at the Book Expo America, the big booksellers convention with thousands and thousands of people from all over the world. And it was in LA that year and Paula and I were there for my book relationship selling. And here comes Mark Victor Hansen and Jack Canfield. They said, jim, Paul, come here. And we sit down. And they said, we got a great new book. We hadn't sold it yet, but. You ready? Chicken Soup for the Soul. And we listen, we thought and we said, okay, that's clever. And they said, well, no, here's what it is. Anyway, since that time they've sold what, 100 million books plus. Speaker B 17:14 Yeah. Jim Cathcart 17:15 Wow. Speaker B 17:15 They got like. They got like 80 something rejections before they ever got it published. Yeah, that's a great lesson for people on how to handle rejection. The answer is stick to it. 6. Stick to it. Iveness. Jim Cathcart 17:27 Yep. And the same is true for so many at the top of the of the field. I want to skip over a lot of years. We can come back and go through them. But I want to go directly to your experience at the National Speakers association last week. That's Phoenix, Arizona, which is a place we'd have so many NSA conventions over the years. And you're in a room that looks like it's out of, out of Disney. You know, it's got five huge screens at the front and an audience filled with thousands. And it's elegant and it's the colors and everything is fabulous. And they say, ladies and gentlemen, welcome one of our founding members, past president, member of the speaker hall of Fame, CPAE Continuari, Professors, Articulatus Axelaire, certified Speaking Professional, Cabot Award winner, Don Hudson. Whoa, whoa. Tell me about that experience. Speaker B 18:25 Well, I got Scott McCain to introduce me, one of the great voices in NSA. Jim Cathcart 18:29 That's the truth. Speaker B 18:31 He brought me on with great applause. How do you screw up after McCain introduces you? But the title of my speech was Back to the Future. And as you know, Jim, I've spent the last five years running a software company. Jim Cathcart 18:46 Yeah. Speaker B 18:46 And I've taken kind of a hiatus from speaking and the software company is doing well and we're making sales, making money. I'm delighted with that. But I'm relaunching back into the speaking business, incidentally. But nevertheless, I gave a one hour speech. It was very well received. And if you want me to talk a little bit about content, I'll be happy to. Jim Cathcart 19:08 Yeah, if you would. And by the way, the week before you did that, you delivered a sermon at your church there in Memphis. And I had a chance to see that online and it was brilliant, very well done and very classy, I might add. I think the way you approach that was, I don't know, enlightened is the word that comes to mind. But, you know, you, well dressed, really conducted yourself like you had done 8 million of these, which is not too far off the mark. And you were also totally engaged with that audience that day on that subject for that purpose. So clearly you still got the touch. Speaker B 19:53 Thank you, Jim. Actually, you know, I do have a wealth of experience, but that was my first sermon preached from the pulpit of a church in front of a live congregation. So I wasn't nervous, but I wanted to do a good job. And of course, I talked about content with which I was familiar and very excited about. So that makes it easy to do a good job. Yeah, but the, the NSA speech was a real thrill. I started off talking a little bit about AI because that's in the forefront of everyone's thinking and how the experts in AI were saying that by the year 2029, there would be what's called super intelligence and AI where robots will be smarter than people. At least some robots will be smarter than some people. And interestingly enough, people were intrigued by that. I talked about the fact that I'd interviewed Dan Burris. He suggested that there will be a time when we can make speakers a hologram and have superintelligence AI interview, research and compile the value system and beliefs of, say, George Washington, for example, and create a hologram of George Washington with the likeness of a person that looked much like him and with a voice reproduced like supposedly George Washington's voice was, and have him do a speech. And I suggest the speakers, you better stay sharp because you might call a meeting planner in a couple of years and ask him to hire you. And he might say, well, this year we're opening with George Washington and we're closing with Babe Ruth. And where are you going to fit into that? Jim Cathcart 21:32 It is the truth, you know, and Speaker B 21:34 they look at the story too. It's the back. Jim Cathcart 21:37 I was going to say it's not too far fetched because we've seen holographic presentations already. And going back a few years, several years, Nat King Cole's daughter, Natalie Cole did a performance with him, you know, virtual Nat King Cole on stage and her singing along in a duet after. He's brilliant. Speaker B 22:02 That was brilliant. Jim Cathcart 22:03 Yeah. Speaker B 22:04 Also told stories about some of the. The old legends of nsa. And I talked about Ira Hayes, who I was so fond of. He was like a big brother to us. And speakers roundtable. Jim Cathcart 22:15 And when I went to my first meeting in Louisville, Kentucky. Speaker B 22:19 Yeah. And I mentioned that Ira used to tell the story that when he was a kid in the 30s, in the depression, he worked in his dad's service station and people would come in, fill up with gas and then speed off without paying because everybody was so poor. So Ira's dad trained him. He said, Ira, this is a bottle of Bon Ami. I want you to take this stuff and get this rag. And every time somebody pulls in, the first thing you do is put the Bon Ami on the windshield and it clouds it up where they can't see out. Certainly couldn't safely drive away. Jim Cathcart 22:52 Bonami was a cleaning. Speaker B 22:54 Exactly. So when they pull in, he'd say hello, and then he would start wiping bonnet on the windshield. Then he would say, what can I do for you? They say, fill it up with regular. So Ira starts filling it up and you want your oil check. You know the routine. Jim Cathcart 23:09 Sure. Speaker B 23:10 And then he would get paid for the gas and then he would wipe off the Bon Ami off the windshield. But his dad said to Ira, here's the key. Don't ever forget this. Put the bonami on every windshield. Don't try to prejudge who's going to try to drive away and who's not. Put it on every windshield. I call that the consistency principle. Jim Cathcart 23:33 Yeah. Speaker B 23:34 And I talked about how I extrapolated that into my sales training activities. I said, an example of the consistency principle is when you're giving a sales presentation, don't try to prejudge the quality of a prospect or the outcome of a sales call. Give it your best shot every time. Because you never know when you can convert a marginal prospect into someone who might buy. Because the greatness of your presentation. Jim Cathcart 24:01 Yeah. Speaker B 24:02 Anyway, that's an example of a Back to the Future theme. How can we extrapolate an old idea into a useful idea for today? But I quoted a lot of people, and then I say. And I put Sanborn's picture up there. After about quoting about a dozen people showing their picture, I put Mark Sanborn's picture up. And I said, actually, Mark never said anything profound, but he's one of my best friends. I promised him. I mentioned he'd put. Done it. Jim Cathcart 24:32 That's good. Look at this. Speaker B 24:34 I got. They got a kick out of that. Jim Cathcart 24:36 We've got. We got Don Hudson here, Robert Schuller, Norman Vincent Peale, Ira Hayes, who you just mentioned. And then up at the top, Paul Harvey Cabot, Robert Art Lakeletter, and my mentor, Earl Nightingale, to whom you introduced me in November at rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I. Because I knew you, I was able to get down to the edge of the stage and catch your attention. And you said, come on back. And I stepped backstage behind this huge platform that was 6ft off the ground in the center of the arena. And you said, have you ever met Earl Nightingale? And I almost wet my pants. I mean, I was so thrilled. I listened to his tapes every day. And you said, well, come with me. And we went back into the green room, and he's sitting in a chair getting. He's got tissue paper all around his neck, and he's getting made up for his appearance on stage. And he was gracious and said hello to me. And then you and I walked out. And we're looking at this arena from behind the stage. Now, this is not behind the curtains, folks. This is on ground level in a great big sports arena. There's a. Speaker B 25:55 Do you remember what I said to you that day? Jim Cathcart 25:57 I'm about to quote it, Edward. The stage is this high above Us. So you got to climb up to get on the stage. But it's like a wrestling match or a boxing match, raised platform. And Don and I are standing behind that, looking out at 11,699 people, because I'm number 700. And Don says, JC, we're next. I said, what? He said, look at this. And look at all those people you just mentioned. He said, they are 20 years older Speaker B 26:31 than us and we were in our 20s. Jim Cathcart 26:33 That's right, we're next. And he absolutely was right. Wow, what a prescient observation and what a precious moment in my life. Thank you for that. Speaker B 26:47 One of the things I put on to your point about Earl Nightingale, I put a picture of me and Earl, and we're sitting side by side at the head table of some convention. And I'm looking at him and he's looking at me. We're very close, and I'm talking and he's listening. And first thing I said to the audience, well, first thing is, there's something wrong here. Earl should have been talking and I should have been listening. But I was only 24 years old when that picture was taken. So I was so lucky, Jim, to get such an early start and rub elbows with these great people at an early age. It really impacted my life and set an example for me, helped me create my destiny in my mind before it happened. Jim Cathcart 27:33 Years ago, when I was in the JCS Junior Chamber of Commerce, they had a program called Leadership in Action. And I loved that program because I had never been exposed to that kind of training before. And it was done in a group discussion format. And so I said, when are we going to have one of those? And then they said, I don't know. Here, you run it. Here's the manual. So I put together a little group. We had our discussion, and I said, loved it. Let's do it again. And they said, no, you do it again. I ended up doing 200 of those that year for free at nights and weekends. And so I really got into that. And the guy who was state president of the JCS that year was a guy named Ken Kuhn. And Ken said to me one evening before JC's meeting, he said, what a great privilege we have to be in this business. I said, what JC's? He said, no, personal. Personal development. You know, to be the motivational sources and to be in on this kind of dialogue with other people, to touch lives in such a way that it. It frees them up and sets them loose to do great things. And I look at you don. And that's. That's what we share. We got into the field of helping people make their own lives and other lives better, and in the process, made our own lives the fulfillment of dreams we hadn't even had yet. And think about all that you've done over the years, not the least of which was that top of the world tour you did where you went to China and everywhere else on a. A private jet charter with all those highfalutin folks, man. I mean, you have. You've dined at the table with kings and queens. Speaker B 29:23 Well, I appreciate your overstatement, Jim, as always. I've had a lot of wonderful opportunities. There's no doubt about it. I have been around the world a couple of times. What a great opportunity and education it's been for me, not just to make my attempt at educating others, but experiencing educational processes for myself. Jim Cathcart 29:43 Mm. When I'm doing the speaker summits and. Not speaker summits, the professional expert summit, one of the structures I use for that summit is a five item checklist that I go over with every person who's there. Item one, what is your value message? How do you tell the world what you have that's worth paying to get it? Value message. Okay. Number two, what is your brand identity? If a whole bunch of people in your field get together, how do you stand out? What's unique about you? All right, number three, who is your perfect client? Who is the like? For me, it's speakers and authors and consultants and coaches and, you know, like I said earlier. But who is your perfect client so that you can target them and not end up doing business with a bunch of people that take you down a cul de sac? And number. Let's say that's 1, 2, 3. Number four is what's your business model? Are you a keynote speaker? Are you a trainer? You're a consultant, you're a coach? Or you have training material? Salesperson? Are you advisor? Mentor? And then finally, what are your standards? Your operating standards? What are the solid rock things that you say? This I will always do and that I will never do. What are the operating standards that guide your systems? Because a system for your business is what a habit is for a person, and that determines who you become. So, thinking as Don Hudson, value message, brand identity, ideal client, business model and standards or systems, what does that bring up for you? What. What can you share with us in the. Speaker B 31:39 Okay, let's go through them one at a time. Jim Cathcart 31:41 Okay, first of all, the. Speaker B 31:42 The value message, ironically, is I'll speak on selling Value rather than cutting price. So when I talk about selling value, a couple of high points of that is when selling value, first and foremost, you must understand how that prospect you're talking with defines value. And we only do that through in depth needs analysis. So in about eight. Jim Cathcart 32:05 Pardon the interruption, but the point there that I want to drive home is we don't determine what value is, we're guessing what value is. They determine what is valuable and we need to hear it and. Speaker B 32:20 Yeah, exactly. And it's our responsibility to learn early on how do they define values? What are their wants and needs? So we need to get the message out that is not about me, it's about you and your wants and your needs. So if you don't mind, I'd like to ask you some questions so you get permission for needs analysis. Let them know early on that you know it's not about you, it's about them. People like that. And then you proceed to ask really good needs analysis questions and you learn how they define value. What do they most want and need and value. Now, what was number two? Jim Cathcart 32:57 Number two was your brand identity. How do you stand out? Speaker B 33:03 Well, my brand identity, I wrote a book entitled Selling Value. I had a really close friend named Jim Cathcart who helped me come up with that title. Jim Cathcart 33:12 But you remember that there's a blinding flash of the obvious. Yes, right. Speaker B 33:18 Anyway, that book has done very well and that's my brand identity since, since that time. However, I've also co authored a book entitled the One Minute Entrepreneur with Ken Blanchard, which enabled me to do a good bit of entrepreneur speaking and training. And I wrote co author book with Dr. George Lucas. The title the One Minute Negotiator. Jim Cathcart 33:41 Yeah. Speaker B 33:42 So also speak on sales negotiations. So those have contributed to my overall brand. Jim Cathcart 33:47 And they do, they do give you a way of standing out among all sales trainers, you know, not just speakers, not just self improvement experts, but even sales trainers specifically. Don Hudson is identifiable in that group. Oh, the guy with the brilliant white shirt and that beautiful tie? That, that guy, the selling value guy. Right. Speaker B 34:12 Yeah. So, yeah. So while those, those topics vary a little bit, they're all about business growth. Jim Cathcart 34:19 And then one, of course is your ideal client. How do you identify that? And how, how would you suggest others identify what is, who is their ideal client? Speaker B 34:30 Well, my ideal client, client from a standpoint of marketing to meeting planners is a speaker, speakers bureau salesperson, or a corporate executive, perhaps VP of sales. Sometimes they delegate, picking speakers down a couple of notches. Nevertheless, my ideal client is someone who is Looking for someone to address their annual sales meeting or their annual meeting of business owners from the entrepreneurial side that want to talk about increasing sales by selling value rather than cutting price. And it's a pretty popular space. Jim Cathcart 35:08 Yeah. And the thing that's clear to you is that if they're not a decision maker, that's going to be and introduce me to the decision maker discussion instead of a full presentation, trying to convince them and then having to do it all over again when you reach the decision maker. Right, right. Speaker B 35:31 Yeah. And it's a takeaway for those who are speakers or consultants who book clients like you and I do. I went to a session at NSA of management company executives who hire speakers, not bureaus, but management companies, people who manage conventions. I got some really good takeaways. The moderator said to the four panelists, what is the one thing that turns you off about speakers? One of them said, when they, when they show me their trophies and their big deal titles before I've heard him speak. Jim Cathcart 36:04 Yeah. Speaker B 36:05 Another, which turned over a cardboard deal that said leadership expert. She said, those words turned me off because there's one standing on every corner. Jim Cathcart 36:14 Yeah. Speaker B 36:15 So we got to be careful how we approach things. They also said we don't want to watch a 15 or 18 minute video demo like we had to do 10 or 15 years ago. Jim Cathcart 36:25 Isn't that. Speaker B 36:27 We want a 2 and a half to 3 minute sizzle reel. No BS. We want to see you speaking. Jim Cathcart 36:35 Wow. Speaker B 36:35 Actually that simplifies. It's easier to create a sizzle reel than a fancy schmancy video demo like we used to. Jim Cathcart 36:43 Well, I remember in the earlier stages of all this, we would send out a audio cassette of an entire speech. And that was, you know, here's what I did last week for the Omaha Room manufacturers. Right? Yeah, yeah, that's what we did. And NSA called it the cassette of the month. And then when I was president of NSA in 1988 and 89, I told Bill Johnson, our exec, I want to change that and I want to turn our, our audio cassette of the month into a audio magazine. And so we started doing shorter clips and then videos demos came about and then, you know, it's morphed into show me, you know, give me 13 seconds of your best stuff in front of an audience of 12,605 people. You know, whoa, that's a little too surgically specific. But yeah, it really markets going. Speaker B 37:42 It is, yeah. Jim Cathcart 37:43 So what about business model? Your business. You've got a multiple business model enterprise now because you know, us Learning and then the software business that you're in and the other things you've got going on. Don Hudson's more than a speaker. Speaker B 38:02 Well, it's interesting you mentioned that because at Speakers Roundtable this year in Utah at Chad Hymas Ranch, I put it on the table that I'm breaking back into the business, would appreciate anybody's input on how to do so. And they said the fact that you've been gone five years from speaking, you need to turn that into an advantage because you've been, you co founded and been building a software company. Not many speakers can say that, especially in this era of AI. And anyway, that's what I'm capitalizing on. And one of our members, Phil Jones, actually wrote me a new bio. There's no way I could have done it as well as he did. I'll send you a copy. Jim Cathcart 38:41 Good. I'd love to see it and look Speaker B 38:42 it over, see what you think, see if you have any critique before I put it out to the marketplace. Jim Cathcart 38:47 Good. Thank you. Speaker B 38:48 But anyway, that's, that's going to be my approach of my means of diving back into the marketplace. Jim Cathcart 38:54 Yeah. And I think it makes good sense. The, you know our friend Tony Alessandra, who's also a cpe, Tony, years ago, you know, he and I and you were all three professional speakers and that was our main lane on the highway. And then we went different directions. I bought a psychological research firm over in Arizona and, and ended up doing the work that became the book the ACORN Principle. And, and that was a lot of psychological research and assessment and testing and such. Tony took the disc model of personality types, social styles, as you and I have taught it, and became one of the world's leading providers of online assessment reports. And he's the back end for Brian Tracy and Tony Robbins and Grant Cardone and Dale Carnegie and, you know, a number of others. So he's got a thriving multimillion dollar business with people in remote locations all over the country doing things for people like us. And he says, I'm not that interested in speaking anymore. Speaker B 40:05 Yeah. Jim Cathcart 40:06 So he spends most of his time sitting at his computer monitor and counting his money intelligently before he makes the next choice. Speaker B 40:15 Yep, that's right. Jim Cathcart 40:18 So how would you advise the people that are already experts at the at least early levels in their field if they're going to build a business around who they are and what they're able to do? Just run with that stream of consciousness for a minute. Advise them. Speaker B 40:37 First thing I would say, Jim, is I would offer this. This advice in one sentence. Listen to your marketplace. Listen to what you are learning from others who are out there. Listen to your clients and your prospects telling you what they want and need. And as we listen, we're going to have here varying messages from what we heard a year or 18 months ago. And we've got to listen to our marketplace, learn from that and pivot and adjust accordingly. Jim Cathcart 41:07 Yeah. And not listen just until you hear confirmation that they need what you have. Speaker B 41:13 Right. Jim Cathcart 41:13 What a lot of people do. Yeah, well, Don, tell me a little bit. Yeah, well, okay, not about that, but tell me a little bit of. No, not about that either. Tell me about. Oh, now. Now we're talking. Because I can do that. Speaker B 41:23 Yeah. Jim Cathcart 41:24 You know, no, that's not selling and that's not listening. You know, that's. That's winnowing things to get to. To where you insert yourself as a persuader once again, which is a turn off a customer. Yeah. Speaker B 41:38 You know, Dale Carnegie used to say, the greatest thing in the world to sell yourself to somebody is to talk with them about them, not about you. Jim Cathcart 41:46 Yeah. Sweetest sound in the world to them is their name, their own name. That's right. Well, there's a quote from Don Hudson that always echoes in my psyche and always will. And I love this quote. And you always open it up with me by saying, you know, jc, I've found. And then whatever comes after that I know is going to be pure gold. And you said to me, do you know, jc, I found that there are very few problems in the world that can't be solved with more sales. That, my friends, is a piece of pure gold from Don Hudson. Ain't it the truth? But it's not selling in the way that we used to think about selling. Me talking you into buying. It's helping people for pay. Speaker B 42:40 That's right. Let's remember that there's nobody who doesn't periodically have a bad day. Jim Cathcart 42:45 Yeah. Speaker B 42:46 But our challenges, we got to stay up. Anyway, I love to say, here's another gem for you, jc. Jim Cathcart 42:51 Okay. Speaker B 42:51 If you're having a particularly bad day, remember, with your genuine efforts and the help of the Lord, you could handle anything one day at a time. And if it's a particularly bad day, with the help of the Lord, you can handle anything an hour at a time. And if it's a really, really, really bad hour, with your own ingenuity and the help of the Lord, you can handle anything one minute at a time. Jim Cathcart 43:17 And you can only live one minute at a time. Anyway, that's right. Beautiful. That's some wisdom right there. I love that. Well, how can you see the Certified Professional Expert designation being more valuable in the marketplace? And let me preface. Preface your answer with some more information. There are 30 currently who hold the designation Certified Professional Expert. And there are people like Don and like Dennis Waitley and Les Brown and, you know, Patricia Fritt and all these folks that we've mentioned so far. And there are. There are newer recipients of it. You know, people have been in the business just a few years, and there are veterans like us that have been around this business for a long time. But the point of it all is not that I teach you to be an expert. I assume you're already an expert if you're an expert in window replacement and you're not making your money selling windows, but rather selling your expertise so that you're the thing that I'm paying to hear from and learn from. I'm not going to teach you to be a window replacement expert. I'm going to teach you to be a professional window replacement expert. If you're a speaker, I don't. I can teach you to be a better speaker because I've traveled that path. But CPE is about being professional in whatever it is that you specialize. That means there are five qualifiers for a professional. They're well educated for what they do. Doesn't have to be formal, but it's well educated for what they do. So they got a lot of experience, a lot of depth and knowledge. Right. They never stop learning, constantly renewing. They do what they do for pay. They do it as a service to other people and according to a set of ethical standards. That's a professional. So, Don, that's what I'm trying to promote is the popularization of professionalism by teaching people how to be more professional and to show their professionalism to inspire others. Still, thoughts on that? Speaker B 45:38 Jim, the first thing pops into my mind is from a competitive standpoint, we've got to work on being on the cutting edge and not on the following edge of our space that we've chosen. So I love what you're saying about you got to keep on learning not only the, the, the basic and advanced skills, but also the, the skills of dealing with people and exceeding their expectations and having a good customer service model and things of that nature. That's the only way we're going to stay on the cutting edge is we got to keep on getting better and better and better. And it's so easy not to when we're busy. Doing what we've been doing for 20 Jim Cathcart 46:18 years, it's really easy to swim downstream. Speaker B 46:21 It really is. But the. The upstream swim is about learning and demanding more of yourself. So I applaud what you're doing. I'm proud to be a cpe. Jim Cathcart 46:31 Thank you. Speaker B 46:32 And delighted to try to help you advance this great designation. Jim Cathcart 46:37 Anyway, thank you. Years ago, when. When the National Speakers association decided to certify their people, you know that before the Certified Speaking professional, it was Continuari Professis Articulata, Sexual Air, the Council of Peers Award for Excellence. That is cpae, which is that ring that you've got on your finger. Right. Is that your speaker hall of Fame ring? And what they did was the first thing they did was they established standards by which they would measure the speakers that were considered to be in the speaker hall of Fame. And the second thing they did was to go to a group of well established, highly visible people and gain their involvement and designate those people as the first crop, so to speak, the first inductees into the speaker hall of Fame, before it was even called the speaker hall of Fame. And that was done in Louisville, Kentucky, at the National Speakers Convention at the Gault House Hotel, where I've told people this in this podcast before. I couldn't afford the $40 for the lunch where you and the others were in that room with Zig Ziglar as the keynote, and you were given the CPAE designations to the people in the room. So I stood in the hallway and ate a hot dog from a street vendor and hoped that the door would close slowly between people coming and going so that I could hear more of the speech and the things that were going on. So while you were sitting comfortably in that room with your friends, I was outside going, trying to get in the door. Speaker B 48:26 I've never heard that story. That's a. Jim Cathcart 48:28 That's the God's honest truth. Wow. Speaker B 48:32 That was the first year I tried for five years to talk Dr. Kenneth McFarland and being a member of NSA, and I finally felt like I was bugging him a little bit. But he knew that he was my mentor and he listened to me, and he knew I was kind of rising in the chairs of NSA. Jim Cathcart 48:47 Yeah. Speaker B 48:48 I finally said to him, Dr. Mack, I know you don't need NSA, but NSA needs you, and I think you should join. And he said, if you feel that strongly about it, I'll join. And he joined. In the very first year we had him keynote the NSA meeting in Louisville. Jim Cathcart 49:07 That's right. And I helped arrange the chairs in that room with then president of NSA Ira Hayes. We were stacking chairs and moving tables and putting the tabletop lectern in place for Dr. McFarland to have his microphone exactly where he wanted it to be. And he came into the room. And I got a few moments, you know, standing near my hero. And after that convention, when I was flying home, I was on the same flight with him. And we were in the gate area together. And I had a chance to chat with him. When we got to Chicago, he put my luggage on his trolley and pushed my luggage through the airport to our next gate. What a thrill for a young guy like me. So thank you for talking him into being there. Speaker B 50:01 You know, I got to say one more thing about Dr. Mac. He spoke until he was 85, the year that he died. And we had stayed in touch. And on a Saturday, he had gotten home from his last trip and he was unpacking and he was standing in his closet arranging his clothes. He fell over with a heart attack. That was on a Saturday. On Tuesday, I received a letter from him. Wow, that blew my mind. Which he had apparently dictated to Hazel, his assistant, the previous Tuesday or Wednesday. And she typed it, mailed it. But I can't tell you how that made me feel, but what a great mentor. I got his picture right over here. He's amazing. Yeah, Absolutely amazing. Jim Cathcart 50:48 Look him up. Dr. Kenneth McFarland, the dean of professional speakers. Man. He at one time had. Statistically, he had spoken to so many people in person from the stage that he had statistically addressed face to face, one in every seven people in the entire United States. Now that market dominance. Speaker B 51:15 Jim, if you like, I'll send you a link to the little 12 minute talk I did at NSA two years ago where I tell the Goosebumps story with a little more of a detail. If you want to forward it to your members, I'll be glad to send out to you. Jim Cathcart 51:28 Happily do that. I'll post it on the. On the CPE site when I post the recording from. From today's visit. Don, you've been awesome. And this is. This is kind of like hanging out with my. My own immediate family when, when I'm with you, I literally feel like I'm just as close to you as I am or was to my sister who's passed away or was to any of the best friends I had growing up. You. You're a special guy in my life. I love being able to share you with the people I know. Speaker B 52:03 Thank you. Jim. Hurry up and come to Memphis. We'll go eat some more barbecue. Oh, yeah. Jim Cathcart 52:08 All righty. Thank you. Speaker B 52:10 Great privilege being with you. Jim Cathcart 52:12 You too, Don. Thank you. Take care. Speaker B 52:13 You bet. Bye. Jim Cathcart 52:17 Thank you for joining us today. If you are committed to making more success happen your own life, go right now to my website, free.cathcart.com and download my free ebook, and then watch the video. If you decide that you'd like my assistance in helping grow your success, then come with me and let's discover how much more successful you can be. Sa.